Alton Johnson (AJ) Interview

Aaisha Haykal (AH): So we are now on record.

Alton Johnson (AJ): Alright.

AH: Can you please say and spell your name?

AJ: AJ A-J Johnson J-O-H-N-S-O-N

AH: Is that your given name?

AJ: Alright, Alton Johnson, A-L-T-O-N J-O-H-N-S-O-N

AH: And when, date of birth?

AJ: 12-13-1990

AH: And you were born where?

AJ: In Aiken, South Carolina

AH: Aiken, South Carolina and your parents’ names?

AJ: Do I have to spell those?

AH: No

AJ: Okay

AH: Unless they are hard to pronounce

AJ: Alton and Vickey Johnson

AH: Okay. And they grew up in Aiken as well?

AJ: My mother grew up in Brunson, South Carolina and my father grew up, yeah, in Aiken, South Carolina.

AH: Do you have any siblings?

AJ: One brother and one sister, CJ Johnson and Breanna Johnson or BJ Johnson

AH: You are all AJ’s and BJ’s

AJ: Right

AH: Interesting, was that conscious, was that decision based on…?

AJ: Yes

AH: Okay, can you talk a little bit about your community you grew up in?

AJ: I grew up kind of in the suburbs of South Carolina, I was actually fortunate enough to be able to see movement throughout South Carolina. I started, from as long as I remember, I started out in low-income area in Aiken, South Carolina and then my parents were able to switch jobs and be able to, as they were able to get more income, we were able to move up eventually into the suburbs of Aiken, South Carolina and so, so I guess I have seen a little bit of everything. I have seen low income Black communities, I have lived in different communities throughout my childhood and I have also seen the more upper income communities where there has been nothing but higher income Caucasian families in the general area and so.

AH: So when you were living in the lower income communities, was it apartment style housing, was it one single family house?

AJ: I have actually been in both situations, there has been apartment housing, but there also has been single family housing, so.

AH: And what was it like living in apartment style housing?

AJ: I guess interesting is a word for it, there is almost a community in those kinds of areas, especially among the kids, because everybody kind of goes out and hangs out with everybody else that lives right beside you so you really get to know everybody in the area really quickly and really easily, but at the same time you also have a lot of drama and dealing with people that might not necessarily want to be so close to other people and you create a kind of culture in these communities, especially like depending on how close these apartments are to each other, depends on just how close and just how much drama can come out of these little cultures that can be built up, so.

AH: So drama, within the children, youth, versus within the grown-ups?

AJ: No, it is especially drama, like, the major drama, the big stuff, the call cops kind of stuff is from the adults.

AH: From the adults, okay.

AJ: Yeah, but from the kids, generally in that area it is not so much good things from the kids that are built up, so you may see some kids kind of smoking or drinking or doing whatever, on the side thinking that it is cool to sell certain things, but at the same time I mean that is a part of it. You also have kids that are part of basketball teams from their own apartment complexes so and so it really depends.

AH: And so, when you come home from school and what you would typically do?

AJ: Me, I am very introverted, I have introverted traits, so I would come in and I would read or play video games or something, like I generally kept to myself and tried to stay out of the whole community as far as apartments and stuff go.

AH: Oh, okay. So how was, were you treated differently by the other youth?

AJ: Yeah, I guess because I stayed to myself I was generally looked down upon, I wasn’t one to curse, I wasn’t one to do anything else whereas all of these other guys it was typical, like that was a sign of manliness I guess. So it was all about cursing and fighting and all of these different things to show that you were a guy or whatever, but I was, I would rather just to sit to myself and read I guess, which is completely abnormal apparently.

AH: For Black males?

AJ: Right

AH: Okay and so when you went from apartment style to single family housing, was that in the same kind of neighborhood or was that one neighborhood over?

AJ: Yeah, that was different neighborhood, definitely skipped around to different neighborhoods and generally, you see something similar, but not quite the same, whereas in apartments you create this culture it is almost exaggerated because you have so many people concentrated in such a small area you cannot help but create that culture faster, like people are like pushed to interact so much more, whereas when you are put into housing you actually have space you have at least a tiny yard or whatever, you have place to call your own that is separated from everyone else so you do not necessarily have to interact with everybody the culture is still there you still have kids getting together, neighborhood kids hanging out or whatever, but it was not like they were hanging out all of the time creating mini gangs like whatever, they might, but it was not as exaggerated and it was not as constant

AH: As it was in the apartment style living?

AJ: Right

AH: So what about space, so obviously in [single family] housing you have more space to move around so did you in the apartment share a room with your brother versus in the single you had your own room?

AJ: Well, in the apartment I shared a room, in the house I shared a room and it was not until we moved into the suburbs that I was able to get my own room.

AH: Okay

AJ: So

AH: So obviously, siblings have problems was there anything major you can think of?
AJ: Well, I mean growing up it was not really a big deal because you do not really think about it, maybe on TV you see some kids on with their own room, and you be like, “Oh, I want my own room one day” but its something that you live with every day and you get used it, you have your own bunk, your own side of the room. I mean, as long as you have enough space to do you then you are happy that you have that much space.

AH: I gotcha. So in the suburbs, when you move to the suburbs; that was the first time you lived with Caucasians around you?

AJ: Well, no not really because both in the apartments and the single, well, smaller houses there are Caucasians around, there are White people in the general area there are White people right beside you every day although these areas had a larger concentration of Blacks in them you still have your low income Caucasian families out there as well they were definitely there, just not as poignant.

AH: So people like to think that there is not any low income Whites in these communities

AJ: Absolutely

AH: Oh, only Black people live in these places and also low income Whites tends to distance themselves from Blacks even within their own economic range. Was that something that you found similar?

AJ: It really depends on the person because you do have Whites who identify with Black culture and they are completely willing to hang out with Blacks and don’t see the problem with it, whereas, you have your Whites or whoever, who will separate themselves from Black people, say, that it not me, I don’t like what they do over there, they are those people, but at the same time everyone is on the same socioeconomic level so, everybody, people are not so different at all. It is just like, they create those barriers themselves, but I mean what I said, it really depends because you see some White families, like taking care of, daycaring Black families and vice versa, it just really depends on different apartment complexes even. It just depends.

AH: It just depends, okay. Can we talk a little bit about your educational experiences, particularly looking at elementary, middle, and high school?

AJ: Alright, my mom used to always to tell me about how she used to sacrifice and work really hard to get me into private school earlier on. So, the furthest back I think of is in kindergarten and that was a Presbyterian maybe or Episcopal school, it was a private school, and it was very churchy, we had to do chapel every Thursday and we did that until I moved to my elementary school and that was an Episcopal school, so that was also churchy, and we had chapel maybe on Wednesdays. I could not stand chapel, I really couldn’t.

AH: Why was that?

AJ: Because it was just boring I just sat in there the whole time and just prayed and I don’t know, sometimes we got stories and I liked some of the stories, but in general it was pretty boring.

AH: So what were you thinking about when the preacher or minister was speaking, were you thinking about what you would do afterwards, about what he was saying?

AJ: I don’t know, I don’t even remember. I don’t even remember chapel like that.

AH: Its’ just a memory, you just remember being there and not wanting to be there

AJ: Right exactly, especially since it was either right before or right after recess and I was a kid so I think that recess might have been on my mind as a matter of fact. Yeah, I think that it was a private school, grew up all White friends, I think that in fourth grade I met my first Black friend pretty much. A first Black kid that I had to hang out with, and we were cool, but I already had my friends. It’s like I grew up around nothing, but White kids, even in, yeah, even in kindergarten all White kids. All White kids through elementary school, except for the one [Black kid] in fourth grade. So me and my brother and this other kid were pretty much the only Black kids in the whole school.

AH: How big was the school?

AJ: A couple hundred, I am not sure actually, but it was, they had first through eighth grade and we were three, maybe there were five out of three hundred kids. And we were just the few Blacks.

AH: What was the name of the school?

AJ: Mead Hall

AH: Meat Hall?

AJ: Mead Hall.

AH: Mead Hall, okay.

AJ: Yes, so yeah that was my general experience in that. I did that all the way up to sixth grade, when I decided that I wanted to go to public school.

AH: You decided?

AJ: Yeah, I think that I decided and I was talking to my mom about it and she decided that it was alright. You need to get out there, you need to see the world, you need to gain some better understanding. So I go to middle school and I am extremely socially awkward. I am put into these classes because I came out of private school that have nothing, but White kids in them, so again I find myself in a situation, like maybe there are one or two other Black kids in the classes, but I couldn’t really, I couldn’t really socialize with them like that, I really didn’t understand I mean we weren’t cool like that. I actually did not have a lot of friends in middle school, like I was really goofy I was really out here and really awkward and the same thing happened in middle, rather high school, I go to high school and I was put in these high classes, all White classes except for maybe one or two Blacks. I don’t think that I ever had a Black teacher except for gym.

AH: Gym?

AJ: Yeah

AH: Interesting

AJ: Yeah, so through high school I never had any Black friends really, like I knew Black people and we hung out every now and then, because my parents made sure that at least we knew some Black people, at least we did some activities with Black people, but at the same time, I wasn’t, my peers were not Black because I was never stimulated with that, I was never pushed out into that and like I said I could never identify with anyone, especially since I was Mr. Black Power, Mr. Martin Luther King [Jr.] or whatever and one of my friends today or maybe it was yesterday or the day before was telling me how like in high school how I was so socially awkward because I was like Mr. Black America or whatever and nobody could understand why I was like that or where I was coming from so it was strange that I would be all out there like that, but because it wasn’t en vogue it was something totally different, but at the same time that was how I was able to identify with Black culture because I couldn’t identify with rap or hip-hop or what all the other Black kids were into, that just was not who I was.

AH: So, that is interesting, you are saying that you were exposed to Black Power, Martin Luther King, [Jr.], Black Panther Party members back in high school, was that because of your parents or because of the reading that you were doing?

AJ: I think that it was because of, mostly because of my mom or her side of the family I guess and it was not necessarily that I was exposed to it, well, I knew about it, well everybody knows about Martin Luther King, [Jr.], Malcolm X, whatever, but something in me just made me want to identify with it. Like even from a young age, I was forced to see like oh, my culture is messed up, all of these things are wrong, I wish that we were on point, I wish that we could get along with everybody, just do the right thing, so I was like “hey, why don’t I become a civil rights leader and try to change something, like try to do something about that” and I don’t know that is just how I was able to identify with my culture, like as a Black person because although I would hang out with my friends, I would come home and my mom would be like you are “Black, Black” and I go to school and everybody is telling me that I am White. So I had to find some way to identify with being Black or else I didn’t know who I was or else I was going to lose myself. So, it was hard and I was extremely socially awkward, but I got through it thankfully, so.

AH: Interesting, so you are referring to your mom a lot, is that because you dad is not in the picture?

AJ: No, my dad was actually there, they ended up going through a divorce later on, in middle school, high school, but it is just that my mom is more aggressive, I guess. My dad is very passive, very chill; he was able to instill a certain work ethic into me, but at the same time he is very chill on his own, so.

AH: Okay.

AJ: That was kind of the rift because my mom is very outgoing and very ambitious and she had a general plan and idea as far as to what she wanted us to know and how she wanted us to be and so, I guess that through that aggressiveness she has more memorable times where I just had to be put down by my mom I guess. That is what I generally remember and apparently it instilled certain things in me that, I didn’t, that I am barely becoming conscious of still today.

AH: Okay great, so you said that you wanted to make a change, was there any type of effort that you made in high school or middle school to do rallies or protests in high school or middle?

AJ: Well, not quite yet, I believe early on I guess I was all about educating, I was like “hey, Black Power” not so much Black Power, but I was trying to talk to people about, I guess this is what made me so nerdy, I was trying to talk with people about civil rights and people getting along and stuff like that, so I could change people minds when it comes to stuff like that, especially when it comes to my Black peers because that was one of the few ways that I could talk to them, but it was mostly me trying to make change on my own, and less than rallies and stuff, like I was often in student government, trying to do stuff like that, I think that I was vice president of the school, my senior year. Yeah, it was just little things. It was just me trying to make change on my own instead of relying on people and it took me a minute to realize that you have to have people to create that change.

AH: So you were involved in student government, are there other, were there other activities you were involved in high school, middle?

AJ: Well, I did theatre and I was really into the poetry club when they had it, I was on the academic team even though I was the worst because I never actually studied for academic team, I just went in there with my nerd friends and just kind of laughed. Yeah, that is pretty much what I did and then I would come home and play video games all day, so.

AH: You said that you were in theatre club, where you, what kinds of plays did you put on?

AJ: Simple little plays, I can barely remember them, I think that one of them was a New Age Adam and Eve play and I think I was some random animal, I don’t know. That was a long time ago and I was the supporting star in one major production they had at the school, my junior year and I forgot all of the lines, like half way through and yeah, that was pretty much, I pretty much chilled after that.

AH: I want to ask, what does Black Power mean to you? because everybody has their own definition of Black Power, so what does it mean?

AJ: As of now?

AH: Well

AJ: I can definitely say that back in the day, I didn’t really know, I was trying to figure it out because again, I was trying to understand my identity, I was trying to understand who I was, because I was told that I was so-and-so on one side and then so-and-so on another and all I could find was that I wanted to be like Martin Luther King [Jr.] one day, that was all I had in my mind, “hey, I want to be like Martin Luther King [Jr.] one day, that is what it means to be Black to be able to create this peace, this happiness” that is what I felt and what I wanted to aim for

AH: What does it mean now for you, today?

AJ: Just Black Power in general?

AH: Do you still believe in Black Power?

AJ: Black Power for me is about the uplift of a race, of the culture, of the consciousness of the people within a culture. That is Black Power, that is the Black power we strive for, within that consciousness we are building up of the race, everything will come whether it is economically, intellectually, that is what we are aiming for in the Black Power Movement or a Black Power Movement instead of more aggressiveness or self-destructive, any destructive power is, the power of intellectual building because knowledge is power and through that consciousness we will be able to raise ourselves and build ourselves, back to where we should be and even greater heights past that, but Black Power is inherently nationalistic and I do not believe in pure nationalism anymore, I believe that every culture has something to offer every other culture and that only by understanding other cultures can we be able to understand our own, but we do have to have a certain amount of understanding of our cultural identity before we even gain anything from other cultures and that is something that we need to build up right now because by being told who we are from other cultures, specifically Anglo-Saxon cultures, we are being diluted and not even we know where we stand out most of the time anyhow.

AH: And so your evolvement in think about this idea came from college classes or from outside reading material?

AJ: Well, I guess, that I always had a passion for it, I always had this kind passion, and so when you have a passion like that, it kind of, I am not going to say that it comes to you, but you go places to learn that kind of thing and it comes to you to you in to an extent. And in doing so, I have done a lot of outside reading, classes, I have done a few, but again a teacher can only teach you so much and you really have to have that drive and passion yourself to be willing to go and learn further. Because it is only through that critical learning that you are going to learn and it is going to stick. You are going to be able to expand on it on your own mind and in your own consciousness. And so I have had to my own outside reading and my own outside study. And that is the study I am most proud of and what I have learned the most from and a teacher can tell me one thing and if I can argue with a teacher on a point, I feel like I have gained something, that, I didn’t just gain what the teacher told me, I have been able to go back and learn on my own, teach myself and that is something really powerful.

AH: What, there are so many works out there, but can you think of one or two that really helped to shape your thinking about the future, the past of Black Studies?

AJ: I know that the Autobiography of Malcolm X changed my life, that is one of the books that changed my life, let’s see, The Prophet by Kahlil Gibran, it might not have necessarily shaped my Black Studies, but it shaped a lot of my philosophy that led to that, and Race Matters by [Dr.] Cornel West, that was a really good one that changed my thought processes. And Breaking the Chains of Psychological Slavery by I believe [Dr.] Na’im Akbar, and that was really profound, it really, it was really open ended, so it allowed you to come to your own conclusions, but it definitely brought up different aspects to think about and if you are into critically thinking about things, that book really on point, so.

AH: So many good readings.

AH: So lets’ kind of bring it back to education, we went on a kind of tangent, but can you tell us about choosing College of Charleston as, for your education.

AJ: I choose College of Charleston because it was beautiful, as simple as that. I had a couple of choices in high school my GPA was alright, I am a Black male, it helps. So College of Charleston, I choose it because I wanted to be surrounded by beauty, as an artist, a performance poet, I wanted to be an area that I felt I could draw inspiration from at anytime and when I first came to the College of Charleston campus, I was surprised almost, for a lack of a better word, at just how beautiful it was, it is still a beautiful campus, I love it, love it, love it, love it, I love how beautiful it is on sunny days, rainy days, it is a beautiful, beautiful campus and that is the main reason, I heard that the teachers were good, that they had good programs here, good communication program, good teaching program, they had Call me Mister, which was a draw, but when it came down to it, it was because I just really wanted to be surrounded by the beauty of the campus and that is it.

AH: What other colleges were you looking at?

AJ: USC [University of South Carolina] Upstate, Clemson [University], and USC [University of South Carolina] Columbia

AH: All South Carolina schools

AJ: In-state tuition is a lot less than out-of-state tuition

AH: Cost, Makes sense, financial aid doesn’t cover everything

AJ: Right

AH: So can you talk about freshmen year, what kinds of activities were you involved in?

AJ: I actually was not that involved freshmen year, I came into college and I guess at first I wanted to see everything, I needed to explore, I needed to come to terms with my own identity I guess. And one of the first things I did when I got to college was to make a friend and I made sure that it was a Black friend. And I think that was the first time that I actually began performing poetry, but I don’t really recall doing too much freshmen year. I remember checking out the BSU, the Black Student Union, seeing what that was about because I really wanted to get into that and maybe be president of BSU in a couple of years or something like that, but that is all I really knew about coming into freshmen year. I didn’t really have anybody to show me all that was going on campus, and what all the options were out there, so I just kind of made a few friends and we just chilled and played games all day, so.

AH: You mentioned Call me Mister, what is that, is that a program or an event, or?

AJ: Call me Mister is a program that the college does and a few other colleges within the state does that basically tells you that as a Black man and if you want to be teacher we will pay back all of your loans, so you have to get into it, you have to have a certain GPA, you have to maintain the GPA and then when you get out it you have to teach for two years at a low income school within the state, but after that, you do not have any loans.

AH: Wow that is a great program.

AJ: Yeah, it is a great program and a lot of Black males at the College are a part of it, so

AH: So you have monthly meetings or?

AJ: Something like that, I actually did not get into it like that, I was going to, I was going to be an education major because I did not know what I really wanted to do. So I was just going to do it just for the loans, and I know there are a good few people who do it, just for that same reason, but, my dad used to egg me on as far as doing it because he used to say that “All great leaders are either preachers or teachers” So if I wanted to be a great leader one day, I had to be a teacher or a preacher, and I did not want to preach so. I was going to do it, but I mean, that it just was not necessarily my passion. I love kids, it is cool, it just is not my passion, so.

AH: You talk about your poetry, you draw inspiration from the beauty of the campus, what else do you draw inspiration from?

AJ: A little bit of everything I believe, I mean the world is a beautiful place and you just have to be willing to look at it with a different lens sometimes because depending on how you look at it, it can be anything or nothing and Charleston, another reason why I really like Charleston is because it has very good spoken word culture here depending on who you know and where you go, there are open mic nights, there are avenues for you to thrive as a performance word poet and you just have to get to know the right people or find the right spots and it’s great and that is one of the avenues I am able to draw inspiration from as well, because when you see someone doing what you want to do and they are just levels above you, its just like you start to understand what track you have to take to be able to reach those echelons and that even then, you come back a little later and you see that you just put them on a pedestal, but that is, but it only through other people that you can gain a better understanding of the world around you then through the meditation of that you can really put that back into the world.

AH: So, where in Charleston do you perform?

AJ: The campus is actually really good for that actually.

AH: Okay.

AJ: There are multiple campus events like bi-monthly that go on, like Poetics, Yo Burrito open-mike nights and they often have guest poets coming in from different areas and then there is Huger’s every third Sunday I believe they have a Neo-Soul Sunday and different poets from the area will come in and perform and it is usually a great event every Sunday, well, every third Sunday. I try to make it when I can, and lets’ see, there is actually a few other places, multiple places on East Bay and King St. that perform every now and again then, like I said it is just about who you know and where you go.

AH: Okay, and you want to make this your career, or is there another path you want to take?

AJ: This would be a side kind of thing, I love it, I love performing and I think that it is great for critical thought, I think that its great for consciousness, for raising my consciousness, I think that it great for building up who I am, but at the same time, how much I love it, I do not think that I want to this for a living. It is extremely competitive, people, like the opportunities are not all that steady and I am not sure I could live that just yet.

AH: Yeah

AJ: But at the same time, what I want to do is kind of the same thing and what I want to do is, this is how I describe it right now, is to be professional civil rights activist, I still have that in my soul and I have held on to that my whole life and that is something that I want to live up to, there are a lot of different avenues in doing it and I am still trying to figure out which avenue to take because there are multiple motivational speakers out there that do it kind of like how I would like to do it, travel from college to college speaking on different civil rights problems, I know that was asked, told, that I should really look into being a civil rights lawyer. I should, there are a lot of different avenues and all I know is that if I do anything it will have to do with civil rights.

AH: Well, that is very broad term.

AJ: Yeah, exactly.

AH: So, the College of Charleston is diverse in some respects and not diverse in others, how have you navigated being a Black male on the campus?

AJ: I don’t know if navigated is good, as I said, I grew up all around White kids all through school, except I got to college, when the first thing I did was to make a Black friend and as soon as I was into the Black community on campus, the Black community is very polarizing, especially on the College of Charleston [campus]. It generally stays away from White people almost, it feels like. I mean you see certain Black people have a few White friends and they invite their few White friends to events here and there every now and again, but generally the community sticks together and does not spread out that much, so if you see a Black friend, he might have nothing but Black friends. And that is typical and that is easy even though it is such a small community, for us to be there. I know freshmen year I did have a few White friends, but through the years it became less and less, and less because I was not necessarily hanging out with them the same way that I was hanging out with my Black friends because again I was trying to find out who I was through that.

AH: Is there, sometimes there are a group of White people, White/Caucasians that seem to navigate to the African American communities has that happened here on campus where there?

AJ: No, not necessarily, from my own experience, I feel that they feel, I guess polarized from the community as well, because it is very polarizing and it is very sharp like, like there is a barrier between Black and White people; like letting White people into our events and vice versa. So I mean as much as there may be a few White people that are able to penetrate that, whether they grew up with Black friends or not it is generally, it does not seem typical in the community, so.

AH: Interesting because I walk along campus and I have seen interracial relationships, interracial groups out so I thought that might be something that the College, the College of Charleston was known for or interested in. But I am finding out that is very segregated on campus.

AJ: Absolutely

AH: It is a shame, do you think that it is the history of the south you think, just replicating itself on the campus?

AJ: Yeah, I think that it is really exaggerated on our campus.

AH: Okay

AJ: And like I said we are very polarized on campus, but we do it to ourselves at the same time, that is one of things that I am trying, it took me a long time to get, but that polarization of that Black nationalism is not necessarily a good thing, that you cannot learn from other cultures, you are just caught up that you cannot learn you are just recycling the same information over and over again. So, I mean it is not right and it is wrong and it is very crippling all that does, all of that polarization build up hate and misunderstanding, well more so misunderstanding and that misunderstanding breeds hate between the races on campus because I have talked to multiple White people and not only have they told me that they do not feel comfortable around Black people because they feel shut out and isolated, but they have told me things about how they do not understand Blacks in general, just ignorant statements, that are ignorant only because they have not been exposed to it and to think that in this day and age that to think that it exists and it exists so close to home and that we are not willing to open up and to reach out to teach for the betterment of everyone, that is a problem, and it is a problem that we are only further facilitating and catalyzing by isolating everybody from everybody else.

AH: So if you are only socializing with African American students is there a big dating pool that you can choose from or do you try to date from outside of the College of Charleston or is that nor one of your priorities?

AJ: Well, there is not a big pool to date from I guess, because again we are very isolated and we focus just on the community, but we have a very small population, and when you have a very small population concentrated in a tiny area with all kinds of freedom and pheromones being thrown from here to everywhere. I mean you create drama, there is so much drama because of that very issue and you do see a few Black people dating outside the race, but those are generally the ones who are not concentrated within the Black community, like the Black community, where everyone knows everybody else and in that same case everybody has had sex with everybody else. And unfortunately I was telling a friend the other day, I cannot date these girls on campus and this is reference to the Black girls on campus, because personally I would not date outside of the race because if I am seriously dating, that is somebody who I am looking to be with for life and I could not be with a White woman for life, because I would feel like that she would not be able understand the trials that I have been through, that my race has been through and there are just certain scars that one needs to be able to understand that a White female would not be able to understand, or any other race as a matter of fact, but as far as the culture, the tiny community, the isolated community of College of Charleston, every girl has been at least with some guy on campus, because as small as a pool of Black females as there are, there is an even smaller pool of Black males who are straight. Out of those guys if you are straight, one of the things that they say is “That if you are straight on this campus, you have messed with more than one girl on this campus” and so if every guy has messed with more than one girl on the campus then of course there is going to be overlapping like, messing with girls on campus, and every guy has been with every girl one way or another and it is a part of the culture that I don’t want to be a part of so if I say that I don’t want to be a part of these girls on campus, that doesn’t mean I want a girl out of the race, I want a girl within the race, but at the same time I do not want a girl within the race within the culture of this campus.

AH: Gotcha, okay. In your family has there been interracial couples?

AJ: Yeah, especially on my dad’s side. On my mom’s side, it is much more, I guess is more Black Nationalistic, very set in the roots, my grandma had all kinds of children, all kinds of grandchildren, and all kinds of grand grandchildren, but we are able to trace our roots back there and they are very modest and homely like, very home grown, whereas on my dad’s side, on my dad’s side it is very interesting one of my great grandfathers actually came as a freeman from Africa and from him I believe, in some point or another he married into the Cherokee, well Creek Indians, whereas on the Creek side, I believe, they married into a White family and so on my dad’s side I have some KKK [Ku Klux Klan] members, family members actually on my dad’s side, like not too far out and I have actually met some family members, that have told me that if we were not family, if we were not blood, he would not be able to look at me like a human being because I am Black and the thing is this guy was mixed, like he was White and Black, but he had like Confederate flags all over his house and stuff. So, yeah, and one of my uncles, he married a White woman, and I think he is mixed and my dad’s side is just all kinds of mixed up as far as that goes, yeah. White and Black it is not even that big of a deal I guess, well apparently, it is that big of a deal

AH: Well for some people

AJ: Right, right. but having White on that side of the family is not that big of a deal, whereas, as having White in the family on my mom’s side would be much more so.

AH: Okay, so there is pressure from your mom’s side to marry a Black woman?

AJ: Oh, absolutely! Oh, my mom has told me not to bring a White girl home, like she has told me on multiple occasions, like “I don’t mind you dating her, but you will not bring a White girl home” She has told me that on multiple occasions.

AH: So you dated White [girls] in high school?

AJ: I didn’t date in high school because I was really awkward

AH: Well, you never know

AJ: I thought about it, but again like my mom always pressured do not date a White girl, so I stayed away from White girls, so that means I was looking at either Black girls or girls of some minority, there are no, but in all of my classes all there are were White girls and the girls, Black girls far and in-between I couldn’t identify with them and even though I wanted to; and then you have Hispanics and a few Asians in between and they were fine whatever, but I just couldn’t, there wasn’t nobody that I could identify with and nobody I could just click with because I just, I was told that I had to look for a certain person and she was not there.

AH: Earlier in the conversation you mentioned that there was this image of, the Black male image that is portrayed in the media by stereotypes, have you, so obviously by being in college you defy one of the stereotypes of Black males, do you see yourself as always being an advocate for another idea of being what a Black male is?

AJ: Absolutely, I am a communications major and I am really happy with my major finally, and in doing so, I have come to understand the power of words and symbols in media and I feel like in media, I mean media is owned by a certain type of person, like media is owned by White men often Jewish who are in charge of all the media and these men may well not have been immersed in any Black culture at all, so what they see they are going to allow to be portrayed on television whether it is good or bad for our culture or not because we do not have anyone up there in power seats in media to be able to say that this is right or this wrong for the Black culture, this is good for us and I have a different understanding of what culture means than you, whereas all White men have an understanding of culture, but they don’t have our understanding of the culture and they cannot possibly that understanding of the culture, so that they are going to continue to portray these negative stereotypes not so much to hurt us, but because they do not know any better they haven’t had to grow up with it. So I will forever be advocating that we need men and especially minorities to be able to get these power positions to be able to fight against this same ignorance in culture or in media in general because that is the only way it is going to get any better because the way it is nothing is going to change, not at all, and only by I guess speaking out these truths and hoping and well, speaking out for understanding and trying to raise the consciousness of the people, it may not stick at first, it probably won’t stick at first, but if I reach one person, if I am able to tip that one person off to think critically about the world around them. That is one step closer to building the world that we need to live in as opposed to the world that we currently live in.

AH: So how do you think the changing or challenging of power that you say we need to do coincides with your idea in working with civil rights?

AJ: I believe that civil rights is the way to do that I guess, because civil rights I guess is not just Black and White or just male versus female or gay versus straight it is trying to build a better world for everybody and in trying to do that, in trying to build a better world for everybody we build a better world for ourselves and that is the aim through giving them the need for an education for everybody, the need for all-inclusive education, the need of empathy, of cultural empathy. Through that, things, will naturally change our education, by changing education it will change our business and who fills, and the opportunities that those businesses offer and in doing so it will naturally influence the media, which influences the way we think, it socializes us, it will naturally influence business, I have already stated business, but it is so important in our society.

AH: It’s the Money

AJ: Right, through civil rights, I feel like through giving everyone an understanding and creating an all-inclusive world that we create a world that is better for everybody and so better for ourselves.

AH: If there were top three issues that you want to confront what would they be?

AJ: I guess that is what I am still trying to figure out I guess, I don’t necessarily push Black Nationalism like to excessive levels, but I do focus on something that I am personally, that I have a stake in immediately, a stake that I want to be able to push right away and I feel like if it had to be those three issues, I guess that it would be the need for Black business, the need for a Black education, and the need for Black government

AH: Government?

AJ: Yeah, because only by having people in all three of those aspects and only by changing these aspects to be all inclusive can we really raise ourselves, only by, because if I only have one, if I only have business, which again is so important in our society, the problem is Black people are not going to go into those businesses because going to Wal-Mart is going to be so much easier, and that is a lack of education, and education cannot change and education is going to forever be problematic for our race unless we have people willing to change it in government. And you are not going to be in government unless you have

AH: Education

AJ: Education or the business that is able to push you into that education and so, it is like a triangle and until we have three together we really cannot do anything, and so.

AH: Another question that I want to bring up is that people think that Black youth are just interested in nothing basically, we are just want the status quo, what would you say to some who would say that or think that?

AJ: I would say that A) you have put a whole race of people into a box because there are always going to be people who are not necessarily a part of the status quo, however, I would say, were they not socialized to be that way. That the majority of Black youth are socialized to be happy on the streets, happy to be in drug life, happy to be chasing after cars and rims, yet, still living in ghettos instead being able to live to their potentials, happy not to go into school, happy to drop out of schools, because it is typical, it is what they have seen all their life, are they not socialized to believe that they do not have a place in society other than the lower crust because they do not see anybody else actually making moves and Black culture are waiting for a messiah, are we not, are they not socialized to believe that there is going to be another messiah, another Martin Luther King, [Jr.], another Malcolm X, another Jesus to be able to come through and save them from this plight that we are facilitating consistently. It is a cycle; it is so cyclical the way that we live. Are they not socialized by media to say that “Oh, that’s my nigger” that is the way it should be, all of the people up top are they trying to change the way that Black people think about themselves? Or are they happy with their understanding of Black people because hey they are the ones making them money, I mean they are the ones with the money, giving us all their money, they do not even need the money, they do not even have the money and yet they are still giving us the money, and those are the pawns that they want. Are they not socialized to be that way to be pawns to want to give their money on these excessive things instead of trying to build themselves up in the economy, educationally, intellectually and in doing so build the economy up instead of just building up the few people in the upper crust, who are also spending their money on the most useless things. It is not a trickle down anything, it is the need for intellectual growth on the whole cultures part, but we are socialized to be that way, we are socialized to think the way we think, and nobody is doing something to change that, and nobody is trying to get the culture to think, critically think about the world that they live in. And how every single thing is set up for them to fail because they are socialized to fail and they are socialized not to think.

AH: Yeah, when you were in elementary private school you were in church schools basically, did that shape your idea about what religion, what church was supposed to be like? Are you religious now?

AJ: I am not very religious right now, actually I take that back, I had one friend say “I don’t have a religion, but I am spiritual” similar to that, I do not believe in one religion, but I believe in every religion, I believe in what I call a golden ratio, that every religion has certain parts that are right and every religion shares those parts with other religions and that only by the study of all religions that one can understand the core of what religion is trying to do. Religion is basically pre-government as far as I know, as far as I consider it right now, it is just us trying to make up ways to tell ourselves how to live, like, just how to live morally as opposed to being told that you have to live this way or you are going to jail. So, I don’t know, I think, like I said, I believe that only through the study of every religion will you find the proper way to go about it because through childhood, I was taken from different churches and put into different things so. I said I was going into Episcopal school, while I was going to a Baptist Church and while I was going to a Methodist Church, I was going to a Presbyterian School and all the while on Saturdays I would be in a Seventh Day Adventist Church, so I was constantly being put into different churches, but at the same time I was being told different things in each of these churches so it kind of made me second guess, I guess.

AH: So why did you decide to do, participate in the Black in the Lowcountry project?

AJ: Because I feel like every voice counts and that only through the understanding of different people and through only, by me putting my voice out there hopefully I will be able to reach somebody else with some kind of understanding, or some kind of spark for intellectual thought and only through that can we really raise our consciousness like only through that can we all grow from each other, so

AH: Well, thank you very much.

AJ: No problem.